Best Kite quiver

Tighe
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Best Kite quiver

Postby Tighe » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:09 pm

this topic come up often. New riders ask often, what is the best quiver, what is the best first kite, etc. Obviously it varies with kite and brand and weight and skill of the rider but I thought we might generate some ideas, debate the options, and maybe generate some valuable guidance for those seeking some wisdom.

Best Two kite quiver
120-170lbs
170-210lbs
210+ lbs

Best Three kite quiver
120-170lbs
170-210lbs
210+ lbs

Best first kite size.
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fabrizio
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby fabrizio » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:16 pm

Good topic!

This is how my quiver (170pds) has evolved
1. 10m
2. 10m & 12m
3. 7m, 10m & 12m
4. 7m, 9m, 12m & 14m

currently I'm pretty happy with mine, I am sure you could live with a smaller quiver (certainly that's what my wife thinks)
but it is good in the sense that here in MN I can get out basically all the times, and never feel I am under/over powered
(well provided I put up the right kite..)

Regarding one kite quiver I think it is important who's the rider: for a beginner I'd say 10, for a more expert rider
I'd say 12.

In terms of use here in MN the 12 and the 14 are the kites I use the most,
but the few times I get to fly the 9 and the 7 (once this year), boy it's worth it!!
My big dilemma now is whether I should expand to the 17 or not.. I feel my 14 (a SS Rally)
can get me out in pretty low winds, but then I'd be curious to hear if you think a 17 would expand
your wind range significantly!

waiting for the fall winds!

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TjDunklee
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby TjDunklee » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:30 pm

Ooo... this is a fun topic. I've been kiting for about 4 years now and my quiver has changed a bit over the years. The first kite I ever purchased was a 12m which allowed me to ride 80% of the time in Minnesota. Eventually I was confident enough with my skills that I wanted to conquer some of the higher wind days, at this point I bought a 7m so I wouldn't be overpowered during the large gusts. Although I loved the two kites, there were times I wanted something between the 12 and the 7, which caused to buy a 9m. At this point I was happy for a couple years, but eventually the agony of sitting on the beach when the wind was quite rideable got to me. After too many days watching people on larger kites get rides on beautiful sunny days, I ended up buying a 17m which turned out to be one of my favorite kites. This is where I stand today in terms of my quiver and I find it covers all of our Minnesota conditions.

7m - Liquid Force Envy
9m - Liquid Force Envy
12m - Slingshot Rally
17m - Ozone Zephyr

I think about reducing the size of my quiver on a regular basis to save room in the car during family trips, but I have hard time thinking about not having the perfect size kite! As you can see, I have a variety of kite styles in my quiver because I have found one model of kite is never good all the way from small sizes to large sizes. There seems to always be a size range that every kite model is the best in and that range differs for every brand/model.

On top of the kite quiver talk, I can't stress enough that it is great to have a couple different boards. I love having one day boosting on my twin tip and then the next day cruising around on a surfboard and slashing some waves! The variety that is available in the sport of kiteboarding is what has me hooked!

BTW: I'm about 165lbs depending on how many cheese curds I've consumed lately.

Superfly
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Superfly » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:47 pm

I got my advise from the man the myth the legend himself.

Anyway I started kiting in 2010 and rocked this combo for 3 to 4 years (About 190lbs then).
9m Slingshot T3
14m Slingshot T3
145X44 Crazyfly Cruiser.

This left me with a giant gap in my quiver. Thankfully the 9 m was pretty grunty and could get me out on the water when most guys were riding 10's and 12's. The big board definitely helped. With this quiver I didn't ride winds over 25mph until I invested in a smaller board. Certainly the 14 and the crazy fly afforded me as many light wind sessions as I could handle.

Last fall I upgraded to the following (about 195lbs now).
2013 9m Rally (Rides like an 8m)
2014 12m Rally (Great range, can ride almost from a 9 to a 13).
2015 14m Rally
Old 135 Lunacy and still rocking the Crazyfly Cruiser board.

I've noticed significant leaps and bounds differences with upgrading from 2008 kites to anything '13 and newer and consequently I've been able to ride much better.

For anyone new reading this post, buying older kites certainly makes you feel better about putting them through the abuse that the typical learning curve brings. I am fortunate I didn't spend a ton of money on kites initially and I am happy to have invested in higher quality kites when I was proficient enough not to destroy them every-time I rode.

Tighe
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Tighe » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:21 am

Great info. Funny how many of us end up with 4 kites. I think we all have felt the pain of not having the kite size for the day and soon went out and filled the quiver.

there have been a few years over the years where my quiver was smaller. The first year the 12 Turbo Diesel came out I had a 12m as my only kite. It worked in all conditions. I really think they saw it was a problem for selling kites and reduced its range. It was so odd to go to the lake and just grabbing your kite...not sitting and try to decide what to rig for 10-30 minutes.

I had the 9-14m T3 quiver as well. It worked fairly well but the 11 was a welcome addition, because it was an awesome kite and there really wasn't enough overlap. I think overlap is key. The bigger the overlap, the less often you'll need to come in and switch down or up, and the more dialed seasons you'll have.

The 13 Octane was another one of those magical sizes. I used that in so many conditions.

These are all Slingies but I'm sure there are similar kites in each brand.

Riding the newer Rallys I'm starting to wonder if I couldn't get by with a 12/9m quiver and maybe two boards. Yes I'd probably miss some of the absolutely lightest days but it'd be rare. The 9 you could take well into the high 30s if needed. I think a two kite is possible with the later generation kites.

I usually suggest people assume a 3 kite quiver and buy the middle size to start. So depending upon their weight either a 10 or a 12m. Then as they progress and want more power they can add a big kite and then when they are comfortable in the higher winds a smaller one. It seems like a few of you built your quiver that way as well.

I agree with Tim, not only does a quiver of boards provide different rides, they also extend the range of each of your kites. Now with Foil boards entering the scene we may find the light wind setup of choice is a foil board and your 8m.

my thoughts

Best Two kite quiver
120-170lbs 7/11m
170-210lbs 9/12m
210+ lbs 12/14m

Best Three kite quiver
120-170lbs 6/8/12m
170-210lbs 9/12/14m
210+ lbs 10/12/17m

Best first kite size. Middle size above.

And it depends on the kite type and board(s)

I agree with Kevin as well about buying used. Last year or the year before's LATEST GREATEST kites were awesome. If buying used allows you to get two kites instead of one, or three instead of two, do it. You won't realize the difference for awhile, and you will be hard on your first kites. Another really good reason to take lessons. You can be hard on the school kites. Taking extended riding lessons, will get you enjoying the sport sooner, give you a much better sense of kites that make sense for you, and you'll be much less abusive on your early gear.
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Barry P
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Barry P » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:53 am

Yes, great topic. Who doesn't think about this a lot?

I have 5 kites: 17, 12, 9, 7, 4. All are strutless 'Clouds' (Boardriding Maui). If I could only keep 2 kites (for Minnesota winds) for kiting on my Paipo I'd keep the 17 and the 9 (or maybe the 17 and 7). If I could keep 3, then 17, 12, 7. If I were to choose for riding my foil, then the 2 kites would be 12 and 7, if 3 then make that 12, 7, 4 (I think).

The board effect is huge.

I know most people like twin-tips. I fell in love with the surfboard feel a few years back, and I am hopelessly addicted.

I have one surfboard with a continuous rocker which is fantastic in responding to wave power. I have another (smaller) surfboard that has a totally flat rocker in the last 18". Not as good on a wave, but as a KITE powered board it accelerates so well that it outperforms the other larger board even in lighter conditions. Those subtle little things make a difference. In Padre or Park Point I choose my wave board. On flat water, the smaller board lets me do more. The board I use the most is a strapless only (surfboard?) that is thin like a twintip (Paipo from Boardriding Maui), shallow fins, and it flexes so the rocker changes as I apply pressure... its super efficient yet very playful. With it I can go a kite size smaller than my other boards.

I'm a newbie at foiling. The board itself doesn't matter very much, less is more. The foil is everything. I'm using a converted 10 year old busted skimboard and am very happy with it as a platform to ride the foil. Tighe is right on. This will be a big game changer to quiver calculations. I think the large board size companies are currently providing as a foil platform is a mistake and just a carry over from racers being the first adopters of kitefoiling. I think the 'fun' factor that everyday kiters will respond to is going to be in light, AGILE, configurations that let you break boundaries all over the place - not just the speed advantage.

Travis
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Travis » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:05 pm

My first was a 2011 14m Rally that I still use today. Then a 10m Rally. Started with 132 Lunacy board, then added 146 Misfit. That was good coverage for almost everything. agree with Barry big board makes all the difference.

As the skills get better and I started to try more things I wanted to fine tune the quiver. Now I'm at 8/11/14 rally with my trusty 132 Lunacy and a big 145x48 CrazyFly All Round. If I changed anything I would make the 8m a 9m to get more use out of it. As it is, it basically only gets pulled for the nuking days at Padre.

Tighe
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Tighe » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:26 pm

that's a nice 3 kite quiver Travis. I forget about the 11m. Nice size.

One thing that we learned with building quivers of windsurfing sails in the past is that you can tolerate larger gaps in the larger sizes than you can in the smaller sizes. Say for example you had a 6,9,14m quiver. You'ld intuitively think this quiver was way lopsided on the small kites. But the difference between the 6 and the 9 is 50%, the difference between the 9 and the 14m is 55%...not that different. Probably more than you would want between kites but you get the idea. 8,10, 14m could be a great quiver, the only downside there is you miss the 11 or 12m in your quiver which are the sweet spot in most kites. Just one more thing to think about.
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Travis
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Travis » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:44 pm

That and nothing beats the 8m when it's honking. So fast, so fun. Just can't let it go. The new kites have such great range that I don't think about it too much, I just go ride!

Barry P
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Re: Best Kite quiver

Postby Barry P » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:10 pm

Speaking of Gap, it wouldn't it be nice to organize quivers by Gap instead of piecing them together in 1 meter increments?

It might be a rough concept to accommodate as a manufacturer, but as a kiter it would eliminate the 'too much overlap' between X and Y the results from even kite size choices.

My current quiver (showing Gap):
17
12 -29%
9 -25%
7 -22%
4 -43%

Maybe I'd prefer to order/build a Quiver built on a 33% Gap:
17.0
11.4 -33%
7.6 -33%
5.1 -33%


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